Why you shouldn't buy a switch kite anymore

General Discussions
djbear33k
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:57 am

Windmaster wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:13 am
What a bunch of whingers... I have had much, much worse from a couple of different kite brands but it would take more than anything I have seen here to write one off completely... No one brand/shop is ever going to keep everyone happy all of the time. On the whole Switch has been pretty good to me. I have had to go through both the '30 day return' and AND the new pay your own tax process. The return of the new kite wasn't quite pain free but I am thankful that I am not left with a brand new but used kite that did not suit me. It cost me a bit of time and money but in the end I still have all of my kites but one Switch and I will still look at them for my next purchase. Shipping this stuff around the world is not cheap and if you want to run on low margins then I can't see how they can do it any different. The tax issue seems to be a no brainier - anyone who lives in a country that charges import tax who purchases off the internet these days simply expects it. Stop whining.
Again a tax focusing person,

your telling me you would accept the following

1. Your telling me you would accept a 5 month turnaround on a kite order and return. Switch who wont pay tax themselves and the returned item is still stuck in NZ customs 5 months later!

2. no refund for items you didnt want in the first place but get charged for (poncho).

3. Mess up of tax charges and paperwork for new orders meaning you have to do without money by paying double the tax for items for a month!

4. no help from switch in any of these circumstances or communication how to sort it.

5. Overpaying on the goods you ordered either through currency conversion. double tax, shipping costs

6. Holding your money ransom and refusing to refund because they dont want to pay the customs duty in their own country


Its cute how you have updated the forum so other stuff pins to the top
worcesternaf
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:16 am
Location: malvern,uk
Contact:

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:47 am

As a previous team rider back in the days of the nitro 2 i feel that switch have failed on several fronts from when i had dealings whith them.

When i bought several switch kites i had nothing but a pleasurable experience. Good customer focus and interaction. All positive vibes I would say.

From what i have read so far this doesnt seem to be the case.

Switch was all about bringing a top quality product at a cost much lower than a local shop or dealer. is this still the case?? Im not sure.

When purchasing previously from switch i had no issues with postage, in fact it was great 2/3 days and i had my kit. What youd expect right? Same if you ordered any piece of sporting equipment from an online retailer. If i buy a kite from a shop i do not expect to have to call customs etc to try accertain what the price may be based on a value declared correctly or incorrectly. I certainly belive that buyers if returning products should not be abliged to fork out 100's of pounds to be able to return an item. Is that what you call good customer service?

I think a company like switch built on a certain foundation that has gained many loyal followers, djbear33k beeing one of them from the look of things should look to continue in the way they started out. Doing everything it can for its customers who support them.

Letting an issue get to this stage where somebody has to post in a public place is not good. Seeing switch react and comment as they have is very dissapointing.

I do hope that switch will be looking to rectify this situation with djbear quickly and and in a manner acceptable to both parties. After all the hassle djbear has been through dont we all this this customer should be refunded what he is owned including any incured shipping/taxes whatever in this particular situation? I do hope this happens.

As for my feelings on switch i will not not be purchasing a new switch kite that may or may not be designed in house for a cost that now can be (depending on all unknown costs) very close to the top brands.
Rides->
Nitro v2 12m
Nitro v4 7&9m
Speed 3 Deluxe 15m
youri zoon pro
ronix franks
custom ckb
Jan:)
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:16 am

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:28 pm

worcesternaf wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:47 am
I certainly belive that buyers if returning products should not be abliged to fork out 100's of pounds to be able to return an item. Is that what you call good customer service?
This sounds nice in theory, but also extremely costly.
And these costs would eventually have to be payed by all the other customers, making the kites more expensive.
I would personally rather keep the kites reasonably priced. ;-)

Do you know any other kitesurf company at all, that offers to take back used kites within 30 days?
Faxie
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm

Jan:) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:50 am
Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:17 am
For a kite that you didn't even develop. I wouldn't call that cheap.
....
The other brands payed for the development costs ofcourse.
But maybe the deal Switch got for using their designs wasn't that great, who knows.
What makes you think the current designer for Switchkites got a bad deal?
And really, why should we as customers care - it is seriously not my business.

I cannot comment on the kites being the same as those from Storm Kitesurfing/IKON.
They look similar, but sizes and details are different.

But even if they are the base for current Switchkites models - honestly I have no idea why you keep bringing this up.
Some emotional attachment to Bill Hansen?

Bill Hansen always made it clear, how he was a private contractor, not a switch employee.
When he teamed up with Switch, he obviously brought in his own designs.

How was this different to the current situation?

It is exactly the same process, just another person doing it.
I bring it up because the mentioning of price. You outsource and buy designs to save money. You cut down on warehousing and tax handling to save money. You get rid of a lot of the staff to save money. And somehow the kites got more expensive, almost to the point where you can just walk into a shop and get a good deal on a quiver for the same money. And then you still have brands like Gong, Zian, Fluid, which have their own designs and are cheaper nonetheless. I rather buy my kites directly from Ikon or Storm, and get feedback from the designers themselves should I desire it.

No, I think Switch might got a not too great deal on the designs they purchased. You can get them at the original brands for less. Or maybe Switch takes a bigger bite nowadays, who knows.

The only details that are different on first glance are the triangular stabilizers in the TE and the bridle attachements. Everything else is practically the same all the way to the exact same stitching locations and panel layout. Don't you think it's a bit strange Switch went for certain manufacturing process for their kites, put out video's explaining why it's better, some top brands like Core (which IMO is the best built brand, just not design wise... ) use those procedures too, and all of a sudden they go back to the old style? Isn't it funny that the new kites suffer the same problems as the kites the original designers made, like the frontstalling (earlier F-One) on the Helium, and the loss of arc shape (Airush) on the Element?

But suuuuure, complete new models totally unrelated to the kites they just happen to look exactly like, 5 times in a row now. With Felix only commenting about 'bashing on the performance by only looks' while noone is really bashing the performance (and no, some criticisms doesn't equal bashing, I made an extensive review on the E6 btw) but are commenting on stuff surrounding the kites. Just keeps avoiding the subject.

Isn't it strange that you don't see any technical design details anymore about the kites? Funny enough a lot of other brands do designer videos nowadays, and Switch stopped. If you're asking me, they're taking a step back on multiple levels. What are Switch and/or the original brands so afraid of? Why not merge?

I never mentioned Bill. Not sure why you are bringing him up? Though I do think his designs were fundamentally better, not neccesarily better performing. And no, it's not exactly the same process.

But I won't be responding anymore... enough has been said. As long as the rest is happy riding.
djbear33k
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm

Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm
Jan:) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:50 am
Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:17 am
For a kite that you didn't even develop. I wouldn't call that cheap.
....
The other brands payed for the development costs ofcourse.
But maybe the deal Switch got for using their designs wasn't that great, who knows.
What makes you think the current designer for Switchkites got a bad deal?
And really, why should we as customers care - it is seriously not my business.

I cannot comment on the kites being the same as those from Storm Kitesurfing/IKON.
They look similar, but sizes and details are different.

But even if they are the base for current Switchkites models - honestly I have no idea why you keep bringing this up.
Some emotional attachment to Bill Hansen?

Bill Hansen always made it clear, how he was a private contractor, not a switch employee.
When he teamed up with Switch, he obviously brought in his own designs.

How was this different to the current situation?

It is exactly the same process, just another person doing it.
I bring it up because the mentioning of price. You outsource and buy designs to save money. You cut down on warehousing and tax handling to save money. You get rid of a lot of the staff to save money. And somehow the kites got more expensive, almost to the point where you can just walk into a shop and get a good deal on a quiver for the same money. And then you still have brands like Gong, Zian, Fluid, which have their own designs and are cheaper nonetheless. I rather buy my kites directly from Ikon or Storm, and get feedback from the designers themselves should I desire it.

No, I think Switch might got a not too great deal on the designs they purchased. You can get them at the original brands for less. Or maybe Switch takes a bigger bite nowadays, who knows.

The only details that are different on first glance are the triangular stabilizers in the TE and the bridle attachements. Everything else is practically the same all the way to the exact same stitching locations and panel layout. Don't you think it's a bit strange Switch went for certain manufacturing process for their kites, put out video's explaining why it's better, some top brands like Core (which IMO is the best built brand, just not design wise... ) use those procedures too, and all of a sudden they go back to the old style? Isn't it funny that the new kites suffer the same problems as the kites the original designers made, like the frontstalling (earlier F-One) on the Helium, and the loss of arc shape (Airush) on the Element?

But suuuuure, complete new models totally unrelated to the kites they just happen to look exactly like, 5 times in a row now. With Felix only commenting about 'bashing on the performance by only looks' while noone is really bashing the performance (and no, some criticisms doesn't equal bashing, I made an extensive review on the E6 btw) but are commenting on stuff surrounding the kites. Just keeps avoiding the subject.

Isn't it strange that you don't see any technical design details anymore about the kites? Funny enough a lot of other brands do designer videos nowadays, and Switch stopped. If you're asking me, they're taking a step back on multiple levels. What are Switch and/or the original brands so afraid of? Why not merge?

I never mentioned Bill. Not sure why you are bringing him up? Though I do think his designs were fundamentally better, not neccesarily better performing. And no, it's not exactly the same process.

But I won't be responding anymore... enough has been said. As long as the rest is happy riding.
I would say you missed out the lead time also to release a product. If switch are buying designs now, there should be much shorter lead times but the krypto for example was advertised in january at KOTA then it was relased October/November very long.

Cost for me in the UK means switch is very expensive now even if i hunt around or wait for a sale look on the second hand market i can find better deals.

The controller 4x for freestyle specific and 5 line was to be released but never happened.

I think i said it before switch are not the same company anymore and have changed not for the better in my opinion.

Being a design engineer myself i would certainly want to encourage development this is something i thought switch was all about. They were about redefining the industry and shaking it up, now i think they may have become followers and not leaders. It's all about margin not the stoke, product or the performance or giving customers something other brands do not ( The spider bridal is gone now that was a clever design). Switch have failed me as a customer i am sure i won't be the last with the business model they have. A simple message or apology would be a good start for me atleast.
Jan:)
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:16 am

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:46 pm

Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm
I bring it up because the mentioning of price.
...
I never mentioned Bill. Not sure why you are bringing him up?
You bring up this topic in about every other thread here and in pretty much every thread about Switchkites on kiteforum.
So for you, it seems important.

For me it is simple.
In kitesurfing I am an user.

I take a kite, try it and if it suits my riding style I will use it (as long as the price is right).
Not sure why I should care who designed my kite.

I tried a lot of different wave kites the last years and for the sizes I use, the H3 performs really well.
Pretty much all that counts for me.
Faxie
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:27 pm

Jan:) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:46 pm
Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm
I bring it up because the mentioning of price.
...
I never mentioned Bill. Not sure why you are bringing him up?
You bring up this topic in about every other thread here and in pretty much every thread about Switchkites on kiteforum.
So for you, it seems important.

For me it is simple.
In kitesurfing I am an user.

I take a kite, try it and if it suits my riding style I will use it (as long as the price is right).
Not sure why I should care who designed my kite.

I tried a lot of different wave kites the last years and for the sizes I use, the H3 performs really well.
Pretty much all that counts for me.
Then I'm happy for you!
MAC
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm
Location: Long Beach Island NJ

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:05 pm

djbear33k wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm
Faxie wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm
Jan:) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:50 am

I bring it up because the mentioning of price. You outsource and buy designs to save money. You cut down on warehousing and tax handling to save money. You get rid of a lot of the staff to save money. And somehow the kites got more expensive, almost to the point where you can just walk into a shop and get a good deal on a quiver for the same money. And then you still have brands like Gong, Zian, Fluid, which have their own designs and are cheaper nonetheless. I rather buy my kites directly from Ikon or Storm, and get feedback from the designers themselves should I desire it.

Isn't it strange that you don't see any technical design details anymore about the kites? Funny enough a lot of other brands do designer videos nowadays, and Switch stopped. If you're asking me, they're taking a step back on multiple levels. What are Switch and/or the original brands so afraid of? Why not merge?

But I won't be responding anymore... enough has been said. As long as the rest is happy riding.
Being a design engineer myself i would certainly want to encourage development this is something i thought switch was all about. They were about redefining the industry and shaking it up, now i think they may have become followers and not leaders. It's all about margin not the stoke, product or the performance or giving customers something other brands do not ( The spider bridal is gone now that was a clever design). Switch have failed me as a customer i am sure i won't be the last with the business model they have. A simple message or apology would be a good start for me atleast.
Faxie,
Kinda sums it up my feelings too, even this forum appears to be neglected with post dates not displaying in chronological order. I could be totally off base here, but to me it feels like Switch is just a marketing/sales company that resell kites. Its no longer a kite company/brand. I really enjoy my Nitro 6's and was looking forward to incremental improvements based on the platform I enjoy flying. Have been on Nitro V2 -V6 and really felt improvements each iteration especially the V5 & V6 versions. In the future I will look to other brands and see what suits my needs. I'm good for a few more seasons on my Nitro 6's
jakoblondal
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:50 am
Location: Denmark

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:02 pm

Im not even form the UK and it took me 1.2 seconds to find this.

https://www.simplyduty.com/import-calculator/

Its the same process we use in Denmark, only difference is, its in danish and its providet by our post office. It is pretty easy to get the total amount we have to pay in TAX, when buying outside of EU.

Soon UK is out of EU and then maybe you can buy all you want then, without any tax problems. :)
djbear33k
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:04 am

Got the bar out of customs but i am not overpaying on my tax just because you couldn't tape two packages together now i have to fight with UK customs to correct it
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