Issue with C4X bar when quick releasing

General Discussions
kitelooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 pm

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:38 pm

Hi all,

Second time my new C4X bar does not correctly quick release and fails to flag out the kite. First time it was not too windy so I thought wind was not enough to pull the bar in the direction up to the kite. This time however it was windy enough but the kite was not propely flagged out by the bar either. Chicken loop swivel doesn't seem to go through the central line as seen in

https://youtu.be/NtQ-VFL4BNc?t=15

but remains close to the ring where the leash is connected, making the kite to remain powered. I believe there is a knot in there the chicken loop swivel can't go through

Can you plase advice, this time the situation got a bit dangerous
Faxie
Posts: 680
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:44 am

You have to pull the line from the black stopper ball, peel the loops apart and straighten them out, then pull tight again so the knot will be smaller. Shouldn't have any problems then.

It's talked about in the C4X topic too btw, including images ;)

edit: You said 'close to the ring' ...that sounds a bit strange... there isn't anything there so close that can jam... do you have pictures?
kitelooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 pm

Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:55 am

Thanks Faxie for the reply. Will have a look at that topic you mention

II have to say that I am quite dissapointed by the manufacturing issues from a bar that costed me 380€. And this is not the only manufacturing defect the bar has (although this one is a potentially dangerous one).
LukeAdshead
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:50 pm

Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:11 pm

Kitelooper, I had exactly the same issue with my new C4 bar. I love the bar, but the safety release simply didn't work when I tried to use it, despite puling the knot really tight by hand, and taking it out in powered conditions, that knot on the lower end of the safety line just would not pass through the swivel and allow the kite to flag out. (I have put some pictures in another thread that faxie mentions).

Recently I was out in some big surf, crashed and my kite went down in the water. One of the broken waves hit my kite when it was on the water just after I had activated the safety system and the force of the wave on the kite was enough to pull that knot on the safety line through the swivel (At this point I thought the canopy of the kite (Element v4) would rip but it didn't, which I was very impressed with). When I got back on the beach and sorted my kit out I tried to operate the safety system by hand and the force of that wave had seemed to pull the knot tight enough that the safety system properly flags out, even when just using hand pressure.

It seems that switch have made this part of the bar with such close manufacturing tolerances that in some instances it does not work. If the hole in the middle of the swivel was just a fraction larger, I think this would make the bar a lot safer and give people like ourselves who have had this problem a lot more confidence in the safety of this equipment. When I bought this bar, it was to replace my old C3 bar, which also had problems properly flagging out, due to problems with the safety line not passing through the swivel, again due to the hole where the safety line passes through being too small.
kitelooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 pm

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks Lukeadshead for your reply. I pulled tight the knot, this is the best I can do, although the knot doesn't go all the way into the ball, as shown on Felix's pictures

Image
Image

However now the swivel can go through the knot when manually pushing the bar towards the lines' end. Hopefully this is the case too when I have to release in the water.

As mentioned, this is not the only manufacturing defect this bar has. Note that these defects came with the brand new bar. At the moment the bar has two uses anyway.

The ends that are supposed to keep together the grip on the right-hand side of the bar are not stick together, an open line can be seen across it. I hope the bar doesn't get ripped apart in the near future

Image

Other annoying issue is regarding the lines finish quality. At the point where the lines extensions connect, in the direction to the kite, the lines seem to decrease in diameter and the excess thread is terminated in this way. This causes tangling with the other lines (when the bar is on the ground, not flying) and it just shows poor quality and attention to detail. Not sure I should cut (or burn?) the excess thread to prevent the small threads untangling down and finally damaging the lines?

Image
Image

Finally, this one just happened now when I had a look at the bar to fix the issue with the quick release. The bangee line that holds together the lines just came off by itself. I tried to push it in back inside the plastic cover but I can't do it as it is too tight. Now I have a nice knot in a bar that has two uses :)

Image
Image

Switch team, I am very dissapointed with the build quality, and I'd like to return this bar, along with the kite if possible
Thanks
Faxie
Posts: 680
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:13 am

kitelooper wrote:Thanks Lukeadshead for your reply. I pulled tight the knot, this is the best I can do, although the knot doesn't go all the way into the ball, as shown on Felix's pictures

Image
Image

However now the swivel can go through the knot when manually pushing the bar towards the lines' end. Hopefully this is the case too when I have to release in the water.

As mentioned, this is not the only manufacturing defect this bar has. Note that these defects came with the brand new bar. At the moment the bar has two uses anyway.

The ends that are supposed to keep together the grip on the right-hand side of the bar are not stick together, an open line can be seen across it. I hope the bar doesn't get ripped apart in the near future

Image

Other annoying issue is regarding the lines finish quality. At the point where the lines extensions connect, in the direction to the kite, the lines seem to decrease in diameter and the excess thread is terminated in this way. This causes tangling with the other lines (when the bar is on the ground, not flying) and it just shows poor quality and attention to detail. Not sure I should cut (or burn?) the excess thread to prevent the small threads untangling down and finally damaging the lines?

Image
Image

Finally, this one just happened now when I had a look at the bar to fix the issue with the quick release. The bangee line that holds together the lines just came off by itself. I tried to push it in back inside the plastic cover but I can't do it as it is too tight. Now I have a nice knot in a bar that has two uses :)

Image
Image

Switch team, I am very dissapointed with the build quality, and I'd like to return this bar, along with the kite if possible
Thanks
If you want to return it, maybe it's better to send an email to Switch directly. Felix doesn't always check the forums.

Which kite is it and what do you don't like about it if I may ask? Just curious ;)

I agree a tiny bit with the quality of the bar. With my bar, safetyline, splice on the lines (never had an issue with that on all my lines), bungees are all good. (all bungees can break eventually with every brand, you're unlucky it happened so fast) I'm not too fond of the bargrip too. I have a feeling the same will happen as with very old F-One bars (first Bandits) where the grip would completely peel off over time. My grip is closed neatly on the bottom, but the swivel is damaging the grip around the centerhole pretty bad, and the grip next to the centerhole (where your hands are when unhooking) is starting to look ugly... matter of time before that will wear completely too I'm afraid.

And I hate the QR, but that's a personal preference. Never heard anyone with BWS, Ocean Rodeo or Peter Lynn bar complain about it (same QR)

But to be fair, most bars have their quality issues, some small, some not so small. I can't think of a single bar that does everything right.
LukeAdshead
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:50 pm

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:34 am

Faxie, I think the point here is that yes, not everything is perfect with every bar, but the one thing that should be perfect and work every time is the safety system. Most people with this bar have been lucky enough to not have this problem, but for the ones that have it is very annoying and potentially dangerous.
kitelooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 pm

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:57 am

Faxie wrote: Which kite is it and what do you don't like about it if I may ask? Just curious ;)
It is a Nitro 6. Not that I do not like it (which I still do not know as I haven't had the chance yet to try in it in good conditions), its more that if a bar is manufactured in that way I do not think I should trust the kite either.
Faxie wrote: I agree a tiny bit with the quality of the bar. With my bar, safetyline, splice on the lines (never had an issue with that on all my lines), bungees are all good. (all bungees can break eventually with every brand, you're unlucky it happened so fast) I'm not too fond of the bargrip too. I have a feeling the same will happen as with very old F-One bars (first Bandits) where the grip would completely peel off over time. My grip is closed neatly on the bottom, but the swivel is damaging the grip around the centerhole pretty bad, and the grip next to the centerhole (where your hands are when unhooking) is starting to look ugly... matter of time before that will wear completely too I'm afraid.

And I hate the QR, but that's a personal preference. Never heard anyone with BWS, Ocean Rodeo or Peter Lynn bar complain about it (same QR)

But to be fair, most bars have their quality issues, some small, some not so small. I can't think of a single bar that does everything right.
I see what you say, all bars have something we do not like too much. However, I have had three Airush bars and never seen issues like these. Note we are talking about manufacturing, quality and post-manufacturing inspection issues here, not long-term reliability issues.

You can like more or less the QR release system, the depower cleat, etc. but you just can't get a brand new bar with these sort of defects. It just shows bad manufacturing quality and zero inspection after manufacturing. Especially a defect on the quick release system, that thing should be 100% tested!
Faxie
Posts: 680
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:42 am

kitelooper wrote:
Faxie wrote: Which kite is it and what do you don't like about it if I may ask? Just curious ;)
It is a Nitro 6. Not that I do not like it (which I still do not know as I haven't had the chance yet to try in it in good conditions), its more that if a bar is manufactured in that way I do not think I should trust the kite either.
Faxie wrote: I agree a tiny bit with the quality of the bar. With my bar, safetyline, splice on the lines (never had an issue with that on all my lines), bungees are all good. (all bungees can break eventually with every brand, you're unlucky it happened so fast) I'm not too fond of the bargrip too. I have a feeling the same will happen as with very old F-One bars (first Bandits) where the grip would completely peel off over time. My grip is closed neatly on the bottom, but the swivel is damaging the grip around the centerhole pretty bad, and the grip next to the centerhole (where your hands are when unhooking) is starting to look ugly... matter of time before that will wear completely too I'm afraid.

And I hate the QR, but that's a personal preference. Never heard anyone with BWS, Ocean Rodeo or Peter Lynn bar complain about it (same QR)

But to be fair, most bars have their quality issues, some small, some not so small. I can't think of a single bar that does everything right.
I see what you say, all bars have something we do not like too much. However, I have had three Airush bars and never seen issues like these. Note we are talking about manufacturing, quality and post-manufacturing inspection issues here, not long-term reliability issues.

You can like more or less the QR release system, the depower cleat, etc. but you just can't get a brand new bar with these sort of defects. It just shows bad manufacturing quality and zero inspection after manufacturing. Especially a defect on the quick release system, that thing should be 100% tested!
You can trust the kite construction. On par with Core, better than North/Ozone/Cabrinha.

This bar was probably a rush job, outsourced to a 3rd party, to get a new bar on the market as quick as possible. The QR itself is a 'proven system' but probably the safetyline is a tad too thick. The line retainers are really not different from other bars, standard shock cord, yours is just a case of bad luck. People were asking for soft grip for a very long time, and I always had my doubts about the quality/durability of softer grips. There was a C4X-Pro in the works with harder and more durable grip, but it's postponed unfortunately... Switch is a very tiny company now, so all the resources are going to the new kites at the moment I think...

What's funny btw about for example the Airush bar, is that if Switch sold that one, people would complain about a lot of things. Grip too hard, barends not soft, depower handle not staying in place with the velcro, no red/black coding, sleeves in stead of splices. People would really burn that bar down :mrgreen:
Juanjus
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:20 am

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:55 am

I have had the same problem. This bar is not secure. The knot does not pass correctly through the chicken and the kite does not lose power.
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