Is controller 4 in development?

General Discussions
Faxie
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:17 pm

djbear33k wrote:Why would you buy one??? Having seen the new photos online i cant see a reason to buy it. Let me explain

Things i like about the bar

Lighter
Simple
bar floats smaller
simple safety release
above bar swivel gone (Atlast!!!)

Things i dont like

1. Bar grip ( I seen this type of bar grip wear heavily and in not much time, i dont see what was wrong with the previous grip, personally i never had issue with it ( I dont have soft dainty hands))
2. Trim Handle ( I cant believe it has a fabric handle, a tab with a magnet is all it needs this type of handle flaps in the wind and wears badly is horrible to hold and use)
3. High split (why do i need to move the high split i find this unnecessary and adding cost to the bar which is not needed)
4. Mini Kite leash ( I find this very disappointing, this would look like for the nitro atleast i have to buy a 4 line bar which i cannot do freestyle with as the leash is too short i would have to buy a legacy which some customers may not want to do, personally i own legacy kites and love it but i did own Nitros which helped me get into freestyle which i wouldnt have been able to do with a short leash atleast add the option in purchasing what size leash they want)
5. Multiple size bars ( just make 1 bar please i dont want choice like other brands trying to sell me stuff i dont want or need like north with its multiple bar setups which cost a fortune, most people wouldn't notice the difference so just make one size for all, switch customers are not idiots they know that they are not going to land a new trick or move cause they have a bar which is 8cm smaller).
6. Cost ( Switch you have priced yourselves out of the market it should price around £250 GBP not £350 this is a price which i can buy north (which i personally hate), blade unibar or naish bar, all of which are finished better than the switch bar and cost the same or less (eg buying last years models for example).
7. Style ( I cant say that the new bar looks nice at all it looks cheap and very dated (Like and old cabrinha bar which again i do not like), you are now charging premium price for a product which looks cheep and tacky so again priced yourselves out).
8. Plastic tube on depower line ( this is one i really hate, cause i know sand gets stuck in the tube wears the depower line and bam it snaps without me knowing mid air, if i can see it i can change it before this kind of thing happens, i got no problem buying spare depower lines, if i were to buy a bar i personally would remove the plastic horrible tube).

Overall i see it as a frustrating thing which switch has made, its overpriced looks tacky and i cant see why i would buy one, i would struggle not to buy a Naish (ok the naish bar has big floats which annoy me apart from that superb bar) or Blade unibar which i think look very nice and simple and are bot priced around £300 which is less that the switch bar. Its also frustrating as i like switch as a brand and its ethos is the best, but dont try to be like other brands offering multiple choices and confusing customers be a leader not a follower. I hope i get to see one in person and eat my words as i only want switch to be the best product it can be and allow riders the best kite experience they can get without costing the world. I hope the bar for freestyle is different ( But i doubt it will be), personally i would have made the existing bar lighter and without the silly swivel and cleaned it up not gone for a copy of cabrinha bar. I think you went too far with the changes being a design engineer myself i see this as a starting point a first draft if you will but needs allot of improvement in my eyes.
Just some thoughts from me:

1: Too many people were complaining since barV1 that the grip was too hard. Personally, I've never minded it, but I understand the choise from Switch to go for a softer grip. The Pro bar should have harder grip.
2: Again, too many people were complaining about the V1 velcro handle. So they made it into a small plastic handle. People still complained because it didn't attach to the line properly. so they made a magnet handle. Again people complained. So basically they went back to the first handle, only lighter and capable of attaching it to the mainline to prevent dangling. I never hear anyone complain about the handles on other brand (North, fOne for example that thing can cause a concussion lol) bars.
3: Bar is low split. The high split is optional, but you can remove the ring if you're not planning to use it.
4: Again, a lot of people complaining about the long leash. 95% of kiters don't unhook. If you need a long leash, just get it from the sparepart section or get the Pro bar.
5: Totally agree. Should have been adjustable. I like the Naish system the most. Simple and not prone to breaking.
6: Kind of agree, but on the other hand....it's still one of the cheapest 2017-18 bars. Don't compare it to old models, that's like apples to oranges. Get a 2010 Ozone bar instead, should cost almost nothing, lol. Blade Unibar is 440,- btw.
7: I think it looks slick and simple. The previous bars looked cheap and unrefined. They worked very well, but a lot of people judge primarily on looks. Me personally, I think the Naish bar looks extremely ugly with a lot of completely unnecessary bumps and ridges. Won't look bad in a 50's scifi movie.
8: Opinions vary on PU lines... I find most of them a bit sticky during agressive steering and sheeting. They can rip too (Cabrinha and FOnes mostly) and sand will eat the line from the inside over time, true. But that will take quite some time though. Initital wear will take longer too. I'm into unhooked waveriding when the conditions are right, so I'm all for PU between my fingers now.

It's just not possible to please all. But I honestly think that Switch is exactly adressing the majority of the complaints over the last few years.

One other thing... I would've liked an adjustable stopper like the new OR one.

If you're into customizing, it's probably possible to create your own ultimate bar now with all the Switch spare parts over the years. :D
Last edited by Faxie on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andre
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 9:27 am

Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:19 pm

After the C3 with some problems (heavy, not swimming, bad swivel, flagout problems, lost the magnet on the depower rope) i would wait for the first customer reviews of the 4x bar. For around 300 Euro i can buy a lot of new bars here in europe (yes season soldout but who cares). Slingshot an Cabrinha for example, and they work fine on my switch kites. So why spend 379 Euro (normal price, no start up discount) for the switch bar? I can´t see any big innovations, the first picture of the 4x shows standart parts that many brands used years ago ... Gin/Ben Wilson/Takoon for example. Manual untwisting, simple qr with no different loop sizes (look north 2018- fine), standart lines. For maybe 280 Euro ok, but in this price level i expect a bit more like auto untwisting by a cearmic swivel under the bar (new core bar - works perfect) or bomb proof lines like slingshot for example. So where´s the switch direct discount sale advantage from the first years (Price!)? Only my 2 cents and sorry for my bad english... :mrgreen:
djbear33k
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:44 am

Faxie wrote:
djbear33k wrote:Why would you buy one???

Just some thoughts from me:

1: Too many people were complaining since barV1 that the grip was too hard. Personally, I've never minded it, but I understand the choise from Switch to go for a softer grip. The Pro bar should have harder grip.
2: Again, too many people were complaining about the V1 velcro handle. So they made it into a small plastic handle. People still complained because it didn't attach to the line properly. so they made a magnet handle. Again people complained. So basically they went back to the first handle, only lighter and capable of attaching it to the mainline to prevent dangling. I never hear anyone complain about the handles on other brand (North, fOne for example that thing can cause a concussion lol) bars.
3: Bar is low split. The high split is optional, but you can remove the ring if you're not planning to use it.
4: Again, a lot of people complaining about the long leash. 95% of kiters don't unhook. If you need a long leash, just get it from the sparepart section or get the Pro bar.
5: Totally agree. Should have been adjustable. I like the Naish system the most. Simple and not prone to breaking.
6: Kind of agree, but on the other hand....it's still one of the cheapest 2017-18 bars. Don't compare it to old models, that's like apples to oranges. Get a 2010 Ozone bar instead, should cost almost nothing, lol. Blade Unibar is 440,- btw.
7: I think it looks slick and simple. The previous bars looked cheap and unrefined. They worked very well, but a lot of people judge primarily on looks. Me personally, I think the Naish bar looks extremely ugly with a lot of completely unnecessary bumps and ridges. Won't look bad in a 50's scifi movie.
8: Opinions vary on PU lines... I find most of them a bit sticky during agressive steering and sheeting. They can rip too (Cabrinha and FOnes mostly) and sand will eat the line from the inside over time, true. But that will take quite some time though. Initital wear will take longer too. I'm into unhooked waveriding when the conditions are right, so I'm all for PU between my fingers now.

It's just not possible to please all. But I honestly think that Switch is exactly adressing the majority of the complaints over the last few years.

One other thing... I would've liked an adjustable stopper like the new OR one.

If you're into customizing, it's probably possible to create your own ultimate bar now with all the Switch spare parts over the years. :D

I have to admit you are right on the PU cover on the rope for freestyle so you dont get friction burn or pinched.

It is a cleaner system i do agree and it does solve issues, just think it could be so much better than it is.

FYI £350 http://www.kitesurfwarehouse.com/kites/ ... ar-v3.html ( I Know its on sale but still i can get a bar which is very nicely finished, and i am sure i can call up and haggle in most shops :D )

An adjustable stopper i completely missed,i never use mine but i think its key to have one for people with shorter arm reach.

Quite a good idea making a bar from switch parts hmmmmmmmmmm
Alysum
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:31 pm
Location: Sydney/France

Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:40 am

The bars looks great. I think we should give Switch some slack because they actually listened to us and addressed the issues with v1-3.

I agree the price tag is high-ish but remember that the spare pars will be much cheaper than the other brands.
E5 7m, E3 9m, H3 12m & Reo 9m
SwitchGreg
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:24 am

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:40 am

The bar looks OK to me. It's virtually a copy of the Ozone Contact Water bar. Assuming the bar is sold complete with lines etc then the Ozone bar costs AUD$699 plus shipping. All the major brands are around this price.

The Switch bar is around AUD$500 including shipping. That's $200 cheaper than the equivalent product from a major brand.

You can get Ben Wilson bars for around the same price as the Switch. There's always all sorts of special deals available if you search hard enough. You don't get much cheaper than the Switch bar.

As for the plastic coated depower line, I have had more than 10 years service out of plastic covered depower lines with no problems at all. Since buying a couple of Controller 3 bars I have had to replace the depower line and deal with tangles from the floppy, uncoated lines. Plastic coated wins hands down for reliability and ease of use.
niko1
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:56 am
Location: West Coast <Ireland>

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:05 am

What the hell is going on around with all bar prices 380 yo yo for a bar is mad,people this is crazy Switch are still cheap compere to other brands the kitesurfing market is getting greedy :shock: :shock: :shock:
Switch Element4 7-9
Board -Naish skater 5.2 2016
please use referral code 104027 when signing up and purchasing from Switch make a good thing to get a good things
hongchew
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:21 pm

Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:38 am

Hahaha. I went ahead and ordered a new 2016 LF bar for US$199 instead. Let's see what the prices are for the new kites :idea:
Bill C
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:37 pm

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:17 pm

I have the Controller3 and I like everything they have done to the new version. Looks simple and integrated. My only criticism is not being able to adjust the bar width, especially if conditions are on the cusp of using two different bars and I have to carry my gear. Plus, I need to buy two bars for optimum performance. I change to 46cm width when using a kite smaller than 8m.

If I understand this right, the new bar is $380 less 15% intro offer making it $323. Seems fair to me.

I've modified my Controller 3, by replacing the swivel, new donut magnets, and applying bees wax on the chicken loop line. Works fine although a bit heavy and clunky design. The new bar seems like a nice piece of work and safer.
br44
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:13 pm

I don't see how the C4X is better than my modded C3 bar (Ozone trim bracket replacing the swivel; magnet glued to cleat; Epic stopper). Would have really liked a small/short QR to increase bar throw; no such luck.
skred
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:31 pm

Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:39 pm

I admit the bar looks really fancy and seems to be a nice improvement over the C3. Well done Switch Team!

However, like some others here I was hoping for adjustable width so that I only need to carry 1 bar. Not my lucky day.

Some others have proposed alternative bars, e.g. a 2016 Liquid Force Response bar and the Kite Attitude Totem Bar (both selling for under 300 EUR atm).
Has anyone tested these on Nitros and Elements? Do they work fine?
Do you have any other recommendations for a single bar that I can use with my Switchkites quiver?

cheers.
Post Reply